The Eight Fold Path - Disembled

The Eight Fold Path -

1. Right View	Wisdom
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech	Ethical Conduct
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort	Mental Development
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration

as put by the website we were asked to visit.(http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/eightfoldpath.html)
I apologize in advance to everyone who was all "yea the eightfold path is awesome and we should do it....etc...." I am writing from the side of a few questions that I feel make interesting conversation.

I read through this and found some things interesting to think about. One idea I have been toying with since we started this topic of the Four Noble Truths and the Eight fold Path is the idea that the pursuit of Nirvana in and of itself is in violation of the very ideas that Buddhism stands on. This idea being that desires lead to suffering and suffering leads to a long struggle against the imperfect nature of the human "condition". So based upon this precept the very fact that these people "want", "try", or even "attempt" to achieve Nirvana through a systematic list of steps that essentially say be good to everything living and take no action that could bring harm to others. I wonder if the Monks who follow this way of life so ferverantly ever contemplate the very desire based nature of their pursuit of "a higher state of being" or "Enlightenment". Is such a thing even possible? It seems counter intuitive to say be without desire and the reality of the world will reveal itself to you, when in fact by wanting to know or see that reality is in and of itself a desire. So is it possible to live without desire whether with or without your own intent? Then if it is not is there truly a purpose to seeking the improbable reality that seems to only be revealed when you are doing the "Right" things and without "Desire". What constitutes a desire? if my stomach growls is it not a sign that I could be in need or want of food in order to sate my desire to be comfortable? If my bladder is full is it not my desire to find relief in emptying it? How do you live a life without desire really if we are creatures of need? I suppose an argument could be that the answer to these questions is a desire, maybe it is, but can you invest in something that seems to hinge on something that goes against the very nature of the world of life? There are basic "needs" that could be said to be desires, it seems to be a perspective game. Perhaps in realizing these things and doing the "right" thing while realizing that there is no promise of benefit or even answer that this is the true nature of reality. I don't know, I'm speculating. What do you think?

I feel that the website we went to is also needlessly sub categorizing the Eight Fold Path by limiting their application by giving labels such as "wisdom" , or "ethical conduct" when really all the parts of this path are applicable and interchangeable with each category. again Perspective.

I can agree that the eight fold path lays a nice foundation to lead the world were it to follow to some semblance of harmony, however peace is difficult to maintane because there will always be some exception the the rules or way people think. I Wonder if perhaps the message here is that to see the truth you have to let go of your interest in yourself and your own personal gain and instead attend to the needs of others? but then is it right to be slave to the needs of others when there are those who would not do for themselves if given the option? what is the purpose of struggle without goals or reason? Why should we exist without goal? or is it that we exist because there is no goal? I at this point am rambling to no purpose and a purpose. Thanks!

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The Noble Eightfold Path

The Noble Eightfold Path is the way to end suffering.

It is the path that, if followed correctly, will lead to peace.

It is broken down into 3 different categories: Wisdom, Ethical Conduct and Mental Development.

Under Wisdom falls Right View and Right Intention. To have "Right View" is to realize that suffering does, in fact, exist and everyone has to go through some form of suffering to reach peace. Once you have Right View, you will have right thoughts and actions. With Right View, you will "see and understand things as they truly are".

Right Intention is a "commitment to ethical and mental self-improvement". There are 3 types of right intentions: resisting your desires, resisting anger and developing compassion, not hate.

Under Ethical Conduct falls Speech, Action and Livelihood. Right Speech is knowing when to speak and what to speak. Don't lie, don't blackmail, don't use hurtful words and refrain from conversations that don't have a purpose. An example of this would be John's experience where you couldn't speak unless you first thought about what you were saying and if it was necessary.

Right Action is acting in a kind, respectful way that will not hurt anyone. Right Livelihood is living with good morals and gaining wealth "legally and peacefully". Right Livelihood is living in a way that does not violate Right Speech and Right Action.

Right Effort, Right Mindfullness and Right Concentration all fall under the Mental Development category. Right Effort is essential in the Eightfold Path because without it, you wouldn't have the drive to get you where you need to be. Once you acheive the right state of mind and see things as they really are (Right Mindfullness), you will be on your way to peace. Right Concentration also contributes to this category. Find a way to focus all of your mind's energy on one thing, whether it be through meditation or any other kind of spiritual or non-spiritual discipline.

Following these steps will eventually lead you in the direction of peace.

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The Eightfold Path

So i am just going to dive into it.
This writing on the four Noble Truths I actually did not like I thought this translation was just there..repeditive..noble but just there. Though in this case I don't think it to be of that much importance if the author did a good job or not on translating the idea into three pages. Looking past that with an idea from past readings I see what is being said, the idea, the humble path of suffering and I can digg it..I do appriciate it.

The reading deals a lot with the belief that "life is suffering" from beginning to the point where one reaches enlightenment. Those who are often blind to the truth is suffering. I think we all reach a time where the truth is blinding, most likely on more than one occasion. Though I do not think this aspect to be suffering, I think it is a form of superficial suffering which essentially is material suffering. when one blocks or lacks the ability to see the truth I think it is a unconscious to conscience defense. Granted some aspects such as religion are a lot harder to cut through the bullshit and know the truth, but with simple life situations I think it is more a defense we use. One could say that this is averting to only seeing the pleasurable.
The dust over one eye is i think a metaphor of dust being the blind. I think what was being said there is that we must wipe our eyes of the dust, that the experience of suffering is a path one must walk and endure to learn from themselves and others. I guess one should not be afraid to suffer its a part of life that naturally happen.
"Yet those whose eyes are only a little covered with dust: they will understand the truth."

I would agree with the middle path of the "perfect one" between two extremes, one being to give oneself us to indulgence in sensual pleasure, or to give oneself up to self-mortification. At times I think its calming to deal with the suffering, by dealing with it, with nurture and flow...things will happen that one must deal with, correct, or involve... I see it as an experience a way to evolve oneself...as it is said in the text. I just think that it can be a lot more bearable then actually being infected with pain and suffering.

Suffering

I won't lie, when I first started reading "4 Noble Truths", I had no idea what was going on. I went back and read it again, trying to really understand and grasp the ideas.

The 4 noble truths all relate to each other: the noble truth of suffering, the noble truth of the origin of suffering, the noble truth of the extinction of suffering, and the noble truth of the path that leads to the extinction of suffering.

The noble truth of suffering pretty much means anything that makes us miserable... not getting what we want, feeling pain & sorrow.. etc.

The noble truth of the origin of suffering explains how suffering, in one way or another, is caused by attachment. We all want these "delightful & pleasurable things", but what we don't know is that we're really setting our selves up for suffering. These things can be smells, tastes, sights, sounds or visual things.

The noble truth of the extinction of suffering is finding a way to detach ourselves from what we want and desire. It is an "extinction" of the craving to want these things. The book states that once there is no more greed or hate, we will find Nirvana, or peace.

The noble truth of the path that leads to the extinction of suffering is simply "The Middle Path". The Middle Path is a road between 2 extremes, which eventually leads to Nirvana. This road "makes one both see and know, which leads to peace".

The Noble Eightfold path is "The Middle Path". If you follow the Noble Eightfold path, you will end suffering.

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